Author Topic: Operating Systems  (Read 33445 times)

Offline Satanic Mechanic

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Operating Systems
« on: August 26, 2005, 03:47:04 PM »
Here we go.  A place to talk about Linux and stuff.

Offline LEO

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Re: Operating Systems
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2005, 03:52:17 PM »
So... Linux is good :) I like what it stands for more than anything else though. I just completely understand the whole philosiphy of open-source in general, and if I wrote/released any decent software, it would most definitely be under either GPL, or QPL... Or any of the other FSF licenses come to that.
"Today, everybody remembers Galileo. How many can name the bishops and professors who refused to look through his telescope?" - James Hogan, Mind Matters

Offline Satanic Mechanic

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Re: Operating Systems
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2005, 05:50:39 PM »
I remember from school..."if you want a bullet proof OS, get a Unix based OS".

Anyway I will be messing with DS-Linux- Damn Small Linux.  I inherited an industrial computer that has nothing but USB ports, so I will get a 128meg USB drive stick and put this DS-Linux on it. It is about 50 megs in size and it will be interesting to see what happens.

Offline Simkid

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Re: Operating Systems
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2005, 08:53:46 PM »
hmm, Linux, I like open source, and have thought about using it.  Ultimatly I'm too lazy to switch away from Microsoft though  :lol:.

Offline LunarOrbit

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Re: Operating Systems
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2005, 09:17:58 PM »
I have Fedora installed on a second hard drive. I like it but not all of my hardware is supported. I had to jump through a whole lot of hoops in order to get my Linksys network card to work, and only the basic 3D functions of my ATI video card work (the TV inputs/outputs don't, and when you pay $500 for a video card you want it to work).

I don't blame Linux for the hardware incompatibilities, it is the hardware manufacturers that don't support it.

Linux is certainly not user friendly enough (yet) to be the ultimate Windows killer. Most people just aren't geeky enough to use it.
" We choose to go to the moon. We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard..."
 - John F. Kennedy

Offline Peyre

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Re: Operating Systems
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2005, 11:55:59 PM »
I've played with various versions of Red Hat, but my real issue with Linux is that it's not nearly as user-friendly as Windoze in certain respects.  In particular, installations aren't nearly as straightforward in Linux--to their credit, Microsloth operating systems don't experience "dependency hell".  You double-click on Setup.exe and follow the instructions.  The program installs, creates an icon in your Start menu, and you're good to go (sometimes after reboot).  Linux ain't so easy.  Until they get that kind of thing straightened out, Linux will always have trouble competing with MS, IMO.

Offline LEO

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Re: Operating Systems
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2005, 05:29:48 AM »
Yeah, agreed with Peyre in that respect, although applications such as yum certainly take the strain off a little.

Anybody have any opinions on OSX?
"Today, everybody remembers Galileo. How many can name the bishops and professors who refused to look through his telescope?" - James Hogan, Mind Matters

Offline Satanic Mechanic

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Re: Operating Systems
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2005, 08:35:17 PM »
Here's a local server with some O.S.s like Redhat and others: ftp://ftp.wwc.edu/pub/isos/ISOS/
The connection and speed are OK.  I know there are other sites but it is always good to have a backup. :wink:

SM

Offline LEO

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Re: Operating Systems
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2005, 05:09:55 PM »
After messing with it for a few days, I've got Mac OS X for Intel (dubbed "OSx86") running natively on my machine. All I can say is, I cant wait to buy a Mac!
"Today, everybody remembers Galileo. How many can name the bishops and professors who refused to look through his telescope?" - James Hogan, Mind Matters

Offline DonPMitchell

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Re: Operating Systems
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2005, 10:11:40 PM »
Gosh, dare I post on this thread?

I worked for 10 years at Bell Labs, and the inventors of UNIX are good friends of mine.  But then I also worked at Microsoft Research for 5 years, and I use Windows XP 64-bit at the moment.  My feeling about UNIX is that it's yesterday's news.  Technologically, it really is pretty out of date compared to Windows NT.

I think sharing source code is all fine and good, but I do not like the zealous political movement that has grown up around open-source.  It's all too easy to sit back and demand that *other* people share and give up their right to economic gain.  Open source seems like a great idea to liberal journalists and college professors and idealistic students.  But what about the rights of professional programmers, inventors, musicians, etc?

Call me old fashion, but I believe economic incentive has served as an excellent stimulation of innovation in America.  Stallman and Raymond claim that "hackers" are the real inventors of computer innovations, but that's really a lie.  I can't think of any important hardware or software invention that was done by a hacker, unless you really think EMACS is wonderful.  Overwhelmingly, the computer revolution has been a product of American capitalism: IBM, Texas Instruments, Microsoft, Intel, DEC...

Instead I see the open source community working on cheap rip-offs of commercial products -- open office, gimp, MySQL, Linspire, etc.  They aren't doing any research or inventing, they are just looking around at what Microsoft or Adobe or Apple are doing, and then go and copy it.  I ran part of my book through Open Office to see how it did text justification, and I was astounded to see it did letter-for-letter the same as Microsoft Word.  They had just reverse engineered Microsoft's typography engine!  That kind of thing doesn't really benefit the world the same way that an honest new invention does.

OK...let me put on my asbestos suit now...


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Offline LunarOrbit

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Re: Operating Systems
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2005, 12:13:02 AM »
As much as I like being able to get things free I agree with you that open source is not a good model to base a business on. Are programmers supposed to work for free? How do people pay their bills if they don't have an income?

That is why I also object to software, music, and movie piracy. The creators need to be able to earn money from their creations otherwise they will not continue making them. If a mucician has to wait on tables in a restaurant in order to pay their bills then when will they have time to create music?

However... without open source software like Linux, PHP, MySQL, and SMF this forum (or the website) would not be possible. Web hosting would be way too expensive for people like me if I had to pay for licenses for non-open source software. So in that way free software does I think allow people to create things they wouldn't otherwise be able to.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2005, 12:20:35 AM by LunarOrbit »
" We choose to go to the moon. We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard..."
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Offline DonPMitchell

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Re: Operating Systems
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2005, 02:33:30 PM »
I use media3.net to host my website.  They offer Windows 2003 server, UNIX BSDI or Redhat Linux hosting plans.  Not exactly the same services are provided, but looking at roughly equivalent business account plans, the cost are about the same ($20 - $30 per month).  High-end e-commerce services gets more expensive and is only offered with Windows ($50 - $200).  But if you just want Access or MySQL service, they are all pretty cheap.  You could easily host a site like this forum on any of those three services.

MS SQL Server was amazingly cheap compared to Oracle and IBM's offerings, and they've forced them to drastically lower their prices.  (Why do you think they hate MS so much!).  But these are still $1000 - $2000 products.  If you look at MySQL's comparable product (MaxDB), its price is $1490, not vastly different from the commercial products.  And since MySQL refuses to run the TPC benchmarks, it is pretty much impossible to know if MaxDB is anywhere near as good as SQL Server or Oracle.
Never send a human to do a machine's job.
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Offline LunarOrbit

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Re: Operating Systems
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2005, 02:48:56 PM »
$20-$30 per month is way out of my range, there's no way I could afford to run this site if I was paying that much.

My host (LunarPages) offers Linux based hosting with 1gb of storage (which can be upgraded to 3gb if needed), 100gb of bandwidth, and unlimited MySQL databases for $7.95/month. It's shared hosting which can cause problems but it's in my price range. The reason they can offer such a cheap hosting plan is because they don't have to pay Microsoft etc. for their software.

I don't know how the makers of PHP and MySQL can afford to stay in business though, so that is why I think they may be running a business model that will eventually fail... but I could be wrong.
" We choose to go to the moon. We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard..."
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Offline DonPMitchell

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Re: Operating Systems
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2005, 09:06:50 PM »
Well whatever OS, I'm glad you are putting the effort into this site.

I'm just saying, the cost of software and licenses is a one-time cost of a few thousand dollars.  A hosting service has purchases hardware that probably costs more than that.  They are paying rent for space, electric bills, employee salaries.  And a high-bandwidth internet feed can easily be $1500 to $2500 per month.

So I'm paying $30/month for MentalLandscape.com, and maybe that's too much.  But media3.net is one of the behemouth hosting services.  I get very high speed service, unlimited bandwidth, and I've weathered a few "slashdottings" without a whimper.  Maybe I'm still paying too much, but if so it is because they have overhead and profit margins I suspect.
Never send a human to do a machine's job.
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Offline LunarOrbit

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Re: Operating Systems
« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2005, 10:08:39 PM »
If you have a high traffic website then a host like mine might not be up to the task. Bandwidth is only one concern, if a site uses too many server resources (high CPU usage etc.) then my host throws a fit.

Are you on a shared or dedicated server?
" We choose to go to the moon. We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard..."
 - John F. Kennedy