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Author Topic: First Delta IV Heavy launch  (Read 124616 times)

Offline spacecat27

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Re: First Delta IV Heavy launch
« Reply #30 on: October 22, 2005, 09:57:42 PM »
Since this thread is back in action for a bit, thought I'd share a few shots from the actual launch last December.  These aren't real great- I was at Port Canaveral about 8 miles south of the Delta IV pad.
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Offline Bob B.

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Re: First Delta IV Heavy launch
« Reply #31 on: October 23, 2005, 08:29:09 AM »
Cool, thanks.
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Offline Ottawan

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Re: First Delta IV Heavy launch
« Reply #32 on: October 23, 2005, 12:45:26 PM »
Nicely done buddy!
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Offline SpaceChem

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Re: First Delta IV Heavy launch
« Reply #33 on: October 24, 2005, 01:05:44 PM »
Great shots!  Thanks.
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Offline Satanic Mechanic

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Re: First Delta IV Heavy launch
« Reply #34 on: October 24, 2005, 08:02:06 PM »
That is pretty cool!
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Offline Johno

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Re: First Delta IV Heavy launch
« Reply #35 on: October 24, 2005, 10:07:17 PM »
Something stirs down in the sub-cockle area of ancient maleness . . it is simply awesone seeing a damn big rocket take off.  We'll worry about whether or not we can do anything useful with it later on!  :lol: 
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Offline SpaceChem

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Re: First Delta IV Heavy launch
« Reply #36 on: October 25, 2005, 09:39:02 PM »
I remember being at the first nighttime shuttle launch.  You could see the shock wave coming and eventually feel it in your bones. Add that to the visual - wow!
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Offline DonPMitchell

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Re: First Delta IV Heavy launch
« Reply #37 on: October 25, 2005, 10:54:19 PM »
I've read that man-rating the Delta IV is something Boeing would like, but NASA has not been enthusiastic about it.  I'd like to learn more about why.

The issues with its engine weight and such is about costs.  The Delta IV is meant to be simple and cheap.  IMHO it is the best "big dumb booster" currently around.  I'm pretty fond of the Russian Proton too, which is also relatively cheap and has the best reliability statistics for the last few decades (well, since its been in use for 40 years!).

Here are some figures I looked up a while ago, for LEO payload capacity of superheavy and heavy launchers:

Saturn V  118,000 kg payload   3,440,310 kgf liftoff
N-1        95,000 kg           4,500,000 kgf
Energiya   88,000 kg           3,582,250 kgf

Shuttle    27,500 kg           2,875,000 kgf
Delta IV   25,800 kg             884,000 kgf
Proton     21,000 kg             965,580 kgf
Titan IV   17,780 kg           1,307,380 kgf
Ariane 5   16,000 kg           1,566,000 kgf
Atlas 5    12,500 kg             875,500 kgf
R-7/Soyuz   7,420 kg             422,500 kgf
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Offline Satanic Mechanic

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Re: First Delta IV Heavy launch
« Reply #38 on: October 26, 2005, 10:31:15 AM »
I am not trying to start a debate but I have seen some figures that the N-1 could only haul 75,000kg to LEO.
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Offline DonPMitchell

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Re: First Delta IV Heavy launch
« Reply #39 on: October 26, 2005, 10:59:49 AM »
Mark Ward's site says 75,000.  The RKK Energiya site says 90,000.  Smithsonian and Videocosmos say 95,000.  Typical confusion.  75,000 was the orignal plan, but the rocket was upgraded to carry 90,000 to 100,000 kg.  Here's a nice article: http://home.comcast.net/~rusaerog/boosters/N1.html.

(Intersting...Korolev and Laika debating...)
« Last Edit: October 26, 2005, 11:03:06 AM by DonPMitchell »
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Offline Bob B.

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Re: First Delta IV Heavy launch
« Reply #40 on: October 26, 2005, 11:24:31 AM »
I think your payload figure for the Atlas 5 is way too low.  The Atlas 552 configuration is listed as having a 20,520 kg capacity to LEO.  I don't have a figure for the Atlas V-Heavy, but I'm sure its even higher.

Source (page 2-2):
http://ilslaunch.com/missionplanner/pdf/AMPG_2.pdf
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Offline skyjim

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Re: First Delta IV Heavy launch
« Reply #41 on: October 26, 2005, 04:27:15 PM »
I'll be pretty surprised if Atlas V Heavy ever sees the light of day now, assuming Space-X doesn't win their case against the EELV alliance.  Small number of payloads, and considerable R&D outlay on a program which has not proven to be a money-maker for either company.  I think they'll just acknowledge that the Air Force has already had trouble maintaining dual sources and keep the Atlas V Heavy on hold unless there are radical changes in demand.

That being said, the 552 variant of the Atlas V does come fairly close to baseline Delta IV Heavy numbers.

I've suspected that the NASA reluctance to look at Delta IV Heavy might also have to do with Not Invented Here syndrome and defending the existing workforce/contractor/congressional support network which backs shuttle and can probably be counted on to back the VSE architecture that Griffin outlined. The current plan has something for every player in that group!

I have trouble buying the idea that human-rating a vehicle  whose basic R&D is already paid for is going to cost more than development of a completely new launcher - which is what CLV is, despite the use of the SRB and SSME!

Jim     
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Offline LunarOrbit

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Re: First Delta IV Heavy launch
« Reply #42 on: October 26, 2005, 04:30:56 PM »
What is involved in human-rating a rocket? Is it just a matter of having a certain number of successful launches before it is considered safe enough for humans?
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Offline Ottawan

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Re: First Delta IV Heavy launch
« Reply #43 on: October 26, 2005, 04:57:43 PM »
I believe it has to successfully transport the manned vehicle it is meant to carry into orbit several times as well. In unmanned mode, of course.
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Offline Bob B.

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Re: First Delta IV Heavy launch
« Reply #44 on: October 26, 2005, 05:21:47 PM »
Quote from: LunarOrbit on October 26, 2005, 04:30:56 PM
What is involved in human-rating a rocket? Is it just a matter of having a certain number of successful launches before it is considered safe enough for humans?
Good question, I'm not real sure of the answer.  I assume it probably has to do with the amount of reliability engineered into the system.  The amount of money it takes to squeeze another percentage point of reliability out of a vehicle that is already 98% reliable gets very expensive.  For a vehicle built to carry cargo you don't worry about it.  It is cheaper to lose one out of every 50 launches than it is to engineer a vehicle that is 99% reliable.  However, if you are going to put a crew on top of the rocket then you want to build in as much reliability as possible.  I suppose "man-rating" is going the extra mile to make sure the vehicle is a safe as it can be.  This might include such things as extra structural stiffening, improved instrumentation, more redundancy, etc.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2005, 05:24:31 PM by Bob B. »
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