What if Germany, Italy, and Japan had won WWII?

[LunarOrbit]

I was watching something about WWII on TV the other day and it got me wondering... what would have happened to the alliance between Germany, Italy, and Japan if they had actually won the war?



Given Germany's determination to rid the world of anyone that wasn't blonde with blue eyes it seems to me that even the Italians and Japanese were not going to be safe forever.



Was Germany just using them to serve their purpose, while planning to eventually turn against them once England and North America were taken care of?

[Satanic Mechanic]

It would be a Cold War between Germany and Japan.  Italy was always a lesser power in the Axis.

[madmax]

This is really the topic of George Orwell's 1984, though most people don't seem to realize it. He wrote the book in 1942 (even though it wasn't published till after the war), at a time when the Axis seemed unstoppable. The United States goes Fascist in order to survive, and absorbs England (Oceania). The Third Riech, having conquered Russia is renamed Eurasia, and the Japanese Empire is called Eastasia. There is then a continual shifting of alliances between the 3 to maintain a dynamic status quo.

That is one not unreasonable outcome. There are of course many others. Fortunatly democracy survived the crisis.

[Satanic Mechanic]

1984, one of my favorite books.  It's funny that England was called Oceania since that is what we call the region where Australia is located.  Of course in the book they mention bombings at "Airfield One" (forgot the exact name) which in WWII was the Allied name for England.

When Winston reads the book about "Collective Olligarchy", I questioned whether or not there was actually a war with those other countries or even if they existed.  I thought they would use the excuse of a war to make the proletariat and outer party members work harder for less.  

I think they changed alliances twice in the book.

[madmax]

Orwell's basic premise did not include nuclear weapons, since they did not exist in 1942. I wonder if he ever considered what difference, if any, they would have made in his story line. I.E. would there still have been an ongoing hot war or just an arms race Cold War? The experience of Winston would have been the same either way, I would expect, but it might have created slight differences in the background.

[Satanic Mechanic]

Dictionary of NewSpeak = Political Correctness.  DoubleMinusBad.

[rencomm]

I was watching something about WWII on TV the other day and it got me wondering... what would have happened to the alliance between Germany, Italy, and Japan if they had actually won the war?

Given Germany's determination to rid the world of anyone that wasn't blonde with blue eyes it seems to me that even the Italians and Japanese were not going to be safe forever.

Was Germany just using them to serve their purpose, while planning to eventually turn against them once England and North America were taken care of?

Don't forget (and I know you don't) that the scientistst that got us to the moon were Germans. (Remember that great line from The Right Stuff: "Our Germans are better than their Germans.") The point being that they were ahead of the allies in jet airplanes and in rockets. The V2 was wreaking havoc and we had no answer but our bombers. But if Germany had held on, or had been faster to develop some of this weaponry, they would have had us at their mercy. As for the axis, who knows how Hitler would've treated them. I tend to think he would've partnered with the Japanese, but Italy he had no real use for. they would have have been nothing more than a client state/satellite.

Of course, you could play this game forever. If Hitler didn't attack the USSR, he may have been able to stay in the game much, much longer. It reminds me of a funny SNL skit when SNL was funny. It was called smething like "What if?" and it was about depicting historical events if there could've been changed in some way. The one I remember was: "What if Napolean had the B-52 at Waterloo?"  

[Jirnsum]

The V2 was wreaking havoc and we had no answer but our bombers. But if Germany had held on, or had been faster to develop some of this weaponry, they would have had us at their mercy.

It could indeed have been much worse. In order to keep the V2s coming (which did do a lot of damage, but not as much as a lot of people think) Germany had to use all of the little chrome it had. If they had instead put it into the production of jet engines, the outcome of the wat would indeed have been completely different. Germany had fields and fields of jet fighters waiting  for jet engines, that never came. All were destroyed where they sat.

[Satanic Mechanic]

Hitler also delayed production of the ME-262 (jet fighter) by one year.  Imagine jet fighters repelling the allies at Normandy during D-Day.

If you guys like alternative history of WWII, you should read Ted Nomura's "Luftwaffe: 1946" comics.

[solarsystemsurfer]

not a long time ago i had a discussion on that with some fellow students



some points:



- we can be lucky that hitler was crazy in some way , particulary a lot of his strategic decissions.

(for example attacking russia before he had won over england or not allowing tactical retreat to shorten front line )



- think of it ... japan and germany fighting together against the soviets  

imagine japain did not bomb pearl harbor and reach out for se asia but fights together with germany against the soviets



- as a consequence FDR would have had no good reason to enter war means the enourmous power of the usa would not or only with a delay have helped the allies





to sum it up i m glad they made many mistakes



greetings from austria

seb

[Obviousman]

Have a read of THE PROTEOUS OPERATION by James P Hogan.

[Satanic Mechanic]

I have read that book and it is not bad for alternative history.

[jdbenner]

Hitler’s racism lost him WWII the Russians hated Stalin (he killed more than Hitler) and were willing to help Hitler in the beginning.  But when they learned that Hitler planed to kill them all, they started fighting for there lives.  And Stalin consolidated power.  Hitler’s Racism also drove away many German scientists costing him the atom bomb.

[LunarOrbit]

I read recently that Germany was much closer than originally believed to getting the atom bomb, and the only reason they didn't was because their scientists were sobotaging their own work. I don't know if that's true, but it's a scary thought.

[Bob B.]

I read recently that Germany was much closer than originally believed to getting the atom bomb, and the only reason they didn't was because their scientists were sobotaging their own work. I don't know if that's true, but it's a scary thought.

I've heard mixed stories about how close German scientists were to having an atomic bomb.



One story I heard is that the Americans gathered together several captured German nuclear scientists and allowed them to see newspapers reporting the bombing of Hiroshima.  The Americans then secretly listened in on the scientists' conversations.  Allegedly the scientists were shocked the Americans were so far ahead of them.