Author Topic: Pentagon Space Program  (Read 75387 times)

Offline jdbenner

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Re: Here's one
« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2005, 03:35:22 PM »
Quote from: madmax
This is one possibility.

http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/technology/black_triangle_020805.html

I'll bet there are others. For example, Liek Myrabo's Microwave Lightcraft, research for which was originally being supported by the Air Force, seems to have disapearred from the radar, so to speak. I can not find any information on research being done on it that is more recent than 2 years ago. I find it hard to believe that such an amazing concept has just been dropped and forgotten. Has it gone black?

Perhaps it was impractical as far as the air force was concerned.  And had its budget cut.
Joshua D. Benner Associate in Arts and Sciences in General Science

Offline Simkid

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Pentagon Space Program
« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2005, 04:16:44 PM »
Interesting, and seemingly plausible.  Although the reasons for keeping this one classified if it exists are beyond me (except maybe avoiding congressmen complaining about spending money building new versions of the Hidenburg  :roll: ).  Somthing that size would be quite difficult to hide though, especially if it handles ANYTHING like an old rigid airship.  Admittadly handling is much improved on modern blimps.  Seems to me that this would have more commercial uses than military though, as this would be used for large troop and equipment movements, the type of thing you cant really hide.

Offline jdbenner

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orbital air ship
« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2005, 06:44:24 PM »
If you are referring to the orbital air ship I think that anyone planning or funding one is crazy.  Balloons can get above most of the atmosphere.  However low orbiting satellites are brought down by air resistance in a few days, and balloons have larger cross-sections for a given mass.  I doubt ion motors have enough thrust to counteract drag.  Also drag over the long spiral trajectory may more than counteract the advantage in specific impulse over chemical rockets (Even if thrust is sufficient).  Also unless the Hydrogen or helium filling the balloon is the payload it will negatively affect the mass ratio probably fatally (even without drag).  The real issue is why that project ever got funding, not if it still is funded.  The only conspiracy I see is one of incompetent budgeters, and bribes.
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Offline tomcat

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Re: Pentagon Space Program
« Reply #18 on: July 06, 2005, 10:00:52 PM »
The Manhattan Project pushed Army security beyond anything ever seen in 1945.  Scientists were checked coming and going and could not carry out any kind information.  In 1947 the atomic secrets had been stolen by the Soviet Union.  A couple of years later the Chinese had them too.

The Pentagon went into shock.  Even the best of their security measures could be breached by major world governments.  What were they to do?

It was concluded that only by preventing knowledge of the projects in the first place could the Pentagon keep anything secret.  And, this began the 'black' projects.

Unfortunately, however, the projects have to be funded and this is when a little light creeps into the blackness.  Project Winterhaven funded in 1954, for example.  It was a feasibility study into antigravity.  More recently, an attempt by the USAF to fund a feasibility study into psychic teleportation.  Have they already got Stargate?

Are there black projects.  You betcha!  What are they?  Your guess is as good as mine.  Anybody heard of a good black project lately?



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Offline tomcat

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Re: Pentagon Space Program
« Reply #19 on: July 07, 2005, 08:31:04 AM »
The Manhattan Project pushed Army security beyond anything ever seen in 1945.  Scientists were checked coming and going and could not carry out any kind information.  In 1947 the atomic secrets had been stolen by the Soviet Union.  A couple of years later the Chinese had them too.

The Pentagon went into shock.  Even the best of their security measures could be breached by major world governments.  What were they to do?

It was concluded that only by preventing knowledge of the projects in the first place could the Pentagon keep anything secret.  And, this began the 'black' projects.

Unfortunately, however, the projects have to be funded and this is when a little light creeps into the blackness.  Project Winterhaven funded in 1954, for example.  It was a feasibility study into antigravity.  More recently, an attempt by the USAF to fund a feasibility study into psychic teleportation.  Have they already got Stargate?

Are there black projects.  You betcha!  What are they?  Your guess is as good as mine.  Anybody heard of a good black project lately?



///tomcat///
Hopefully, if these advanced spacecraft designs do exist, the technology will filter down to the regular space program.

Don't count on it.  Classified 'black' programs are self perpetuating.  Institutional momentum, and all of that.  Who wants their program declassified and lose status?  As a result, the 'black' programs have generated the 'black' world.  Problem:  will the 'black' world split from the rest of the United States completely?

It is very expensive to have Top Secret programs.  The classification alone costs billions in background checks, and very high paid workers.  Some of this could be waste.  And this is not to even mention the cost of ordinary scientists and engineers being forced to reinvent the wheel, spending years on a project only to be told to stop work because it is 'classified'.


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Offline tomcat

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Re: Pentagon Space Program
« Reply #20 on: August 05, 2005, 05:15:53 PM »
I really don't know much about this subject, but I just thought I would throw this out to see if any one else is interested or knowledgable about this.
Back in the fifties and early sixties the Pentagon, especially the Air Force, but also the Army and Navy, had their own fledgling space programs. When NASA was formed the military was told to conduct all it's space activities through NASA, and especially all manned space ventures came under the pervue of NASA. Officially the Air Force continued it's own manned space projects for a time, DynaSoar, Blue Gemini, MOL, but all these were eventualy canceled and NASA became the only operator of a manned program.
 Â   Now lets look at the budgets. NASA's annual budget is around 15 billion. The Pentagon's annual budget is around 200 billion, IIRC. The degree of secrecy surronding the expenditure of the military's budget is astounding, and understandable. It would be possible for the military to have continued a black space program, or at least space R&D, with a budget equal to or greater than NASA's, and hide it very easily within the normal expenditures.
 Â   So is it possible the Air Force, or other branches, have a secret space program? What evidence is there one way or the other?
 Â   There are strange things being seen around Air Force bases, maybe extremly advanced air craft being tested? If the X-15 could reach sub orbital space in 1962, who knows what might be possible today? What are the Big Black Deltas?
 Â   I am not talking about UFOs at Area 51, I'm talking about real black projects that might have capabilities that could qualify the vehicles as space craft. It sure looks to me like this is within the realm of the possible, at least as far as budgetary resources are concerned.
 Â   Any opinions?


Townsend developed Electrogravitic in the 50's.  General Electric worked with anti-gravity in the 50's.  France had a 'flying saucer' in 1953.  Project Winterhaven was a USAF feasiblilty study into anti-gravity funded by Congress in 1954.

Sometimes I wonder if the Sci-Fi classic "Forbidden Planet" didn't accurately portray our late 50's level of accomplishment.  Where we are now, of course, I don't know.  Maybe we lost all of our scientific prowess -- somehow -- and are in the 'dark ages'.

In 2005, we are having trouble with the rocket propelled space shuttle, and are seriously thinking of going back to 'capsules' using 'parachutes'.

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Offline jdbenner

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Re: Pentagon Space Program
« Reply #21 on: August 05, 2005, 05:34:29 PM »
 :D So do you favor wings or anti gravity? :lol: :lol: 
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Offline tomcat

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Re: Pentagon Space Program
« Reply #22 on: August 05, 2005, 10:50:23 PM »
:D So do you favor wings or anti gravity? :lol: :lol: 


Even mention anti-gravity and Big Brother burps.  Ever since 1956 it has been black, black, black.

Fact:  anti-gravity shielding has been around since 1911.

Fact:  A feasibility study into invisibility was completed by Chicago University in 1939.  It was regarded as feasible.  Rightfully so, the British and Canadians had already done it!

Fact:  USAF intelligence had a photograph of a French 'flying saucer' hovering above the ground in 1953.  This comes from a recently released photograph stamped with date and service markings.

Fact:  Project Winterhaven was commissioned by Congress in 1954 as a feasibility study into anti-gravity.  Wonder why?


So, stick to rockets or watch out for the Men In Black.

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« Last Edit: August 05, 2005, 10:52:45 PM by tomcat »
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Offline Jirnsum

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Re: Pentagon Space Program
« Reply #23 on: August 06, 2005, 08:19:23 AM »
:D So do you favor wings or anti gravity? :lol: :lol: 


Even mention anti-gravity and Big Brother burps.  Ever since 1956 it has been black, black, black.

Fact:  anti-gravity shielding has been around since 1911.

Fact:  A feasibility study into invisibility was completed by Chicago University in 1939.  It was regarded as feasible.  Rightfully so, the British and Canadians had already done it!

Fact:  USAF intelligence had a photograph of a French 'flying saucer' hovering above the ground in 1953.  This comes from a recently released photograph stamped with date and service markings.

Fact:  Project Winterhaven was commissioned by Congress in 1954 as a feasibility study into anti-gravity.  Wonder why?


So, stick to rockets or watch out for the Men In Black.

///tomcat///

Interesting. Could you show any data on those devices? I never heard of the anti-gravity shield for instance.
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Offline Simkid

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Re: Pentagon Space Program
« Reply #24 on: August 06, 2005, 11:10:21 AM »
I don't know anything about the French design, and have never heard about Anti-grav research, but I know the Canadian "flying saucer" used a simple fan of some sort (can't remember whether it was jet or piston).  Anyway, more info at http://www.avroarrow.org/Avrocar/Avrocar.html

Offline tomcat

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Re: Pentagon Space Program
« Reply #25 on: August 06, 2005, 02:38:10 PM »
I should keep these references on hand.  But I researched them so thourghly years ago that I accept them as fact, and forget that others are just coming across them.

In 1911 Edward S. Farrow, a New York engineer, staged public demonstrations of a dynamo that could gravity shield.

This is public fact and you can check it out further if you like.

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« Last Edit: August 06, 2005, 02:42:17 PM by tomcat »
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Offline Satanic Mechanic

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Re: Pentagon Space Program
« Reply #26 on: August 06, 2005, 04:47:23 PM »
Fact is a legal term not a scientific or engineering term.  Research they say, is just plagarizing other people's work. 
If you cannot reproduce this experiment or prove your statement without the numbers then you are full of it.  This is more junk science and don't give me that men in black or black sheathed aliens coverup B.S. 

Offline LunarOrbit

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Re: Pentagon Space Program
« Reply #27 on: August 06, 2005, 04:53:00 PM »
I did a Google search for "Edward S. Farrow". His "anti-gravity device" involved electro-magnets. They use magnetism to hover trains now... but good luck getting anything to hover more than a few feet above a magnet.
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Offline tomcat

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Re: Pentagon Space Program
« Reply #28 on: August 07, 2005, 05:48:34 AM »
I did a Google search for "Edward S. Farrow". His "anti-gravity device" involved electro-magnets. They use magnetism to hover trains now... but good luck getting anything to hover more than a few feet above a magnet.


My understanding is that Edward Farrow used a Tesla alternating current device of some kind.  That scientists of his era had examined the demonstrations and found nothing amiss.  But it was a long time ago and it is hard to say for sure what was going on.

What I personally remember was a newsreel when I was about 8 years old in which a toy sail boat was made to disappear and reappear with an external electrical device.  It was said to have been done at the Princeton Institute of Advanced Studies and the news media had been invited.  They had recorded it on film as well as with photographs.  The demonstration had taken place in 1939 and I saw it around 1955.

Much the same was true of antigravity.  It was publicly announced as successful then it . . . disappeared.  Antigravity and the toy sailboat are probably in the same file cabinet together.  I wonder where the file cabinet is?

Probably in the Captain's cabin of the USS Eldridge.


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Offline spacecat27

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Re: Pentagon Space Program
« Reply #29 on: August 07, 2005, 09:27:31 AM »
"In a court of law, eyewitness testimony is considered the highest form of evidence.
In the 'court' of science, it is considered the lowest."
-Neil deGrasse Tyson
 :)  8)