Author Topic: Secret Star Wars program  (Read 89815 times)

Offline isael23

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Re: Secret Star Wars program
« Reply #15 on: May 13, 2009, 04:51:25 PM »
okay  :yoda:aliens :yoda: don't  :yoda:exist :yoda: but :yoda: i :yoda: know :yoda: one  :yoda:thing :yoda: that :yoda: angels :yoda: (that do exist r aliens ) :yoda:

Offline ijuin

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Re: Secret Star Wars program
« Reply #16 on: May 13, 2009, 05:00:58 PM »
      Why does the power cable have to be Superconducting?  Many Power lines on earth exceed 30 miles.

How thick would a standard copper cable have to be to transmit several gigawatts without melting? A meter thick? More? A cable that thick would be too heavy to be supported up to stratospheric height by balloon.

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I have read Rocheworld, Dr. Robert Forward.  Had a two stage sail to decelerate.  That is not necessary,  A magnetic sail, such as Mini Magnetosphereic propulsion, could act as a parachute to slow into orbit around the destination star.  This should reduce the required range of the laser and reduce the mass of the spacecraft.

From tens of thousands of km/s? Let's say you are going at 20,000 km/s and decelerate at a constant 4 g's. It will take about five billion km to come to a stop, and I don't much like the crew's chances of enduring higher acceleration than that for several days on end (three days at 4 g's). Stellar magnetospheres for a Sol-like or smaller star are kind of weak till you get within a few billion km, and by the time you get close enough that there's much to brake against, you are close enough that you'd have to use bone-crunching deceleration to stop. You're going to have to brake more slowly, and do it against the interstellar medium for a few weeks before arrival.

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Also there were several chemically fueled Landers with propellant in the payload to Rocheworld.  The point is that mass can be reduced.

You can probably lighten the landers by using a different propulsion method on them, but you really do want to retain the capacity for several landings, since you spend all the time and effort to reach the target solar system. For example, all of the larger-than-Luna-sized bodies that were landed upon in Rocheworld had atmospheres denser than Mars, so some aerobraking could have been used and saved 70-80% of the descent fuel.

On the other hand, we ARE talking about a closed-loop ecosystem, with complete food production included, to support twenty humans, so there are limits to how small we can make the core starship. Maybe half the mass of Dr. Forward's ship?

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It is also not necessary to reach 20% of the speed of light.  5% c will make the trip to  Rigil Kentaurus, in under a Century.  10% light speed would allow travel to any of the 25 closest stars (other than the sun) in under 120 years.

If we are not using any hibernation or other human-lifespan-extending methods, then if you want the crew that arrives to be the same crew that departs from Earth (instead of their grandkids, who may not have the equivalent quality of training from their parents that can be had from NASA, MIT, etc., and who more importantly will have no personal reference points for living outside of their starship), and you want them to not be geriatric when they do, then the reasonable limit on travel time is about fifty years of shipboard time.

Offline Satanic Mechanic

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Re: Secret Star Wars program
« Reply #17 on: May 13, 2009, 05:30:25 PM »


How thick would a standard copper cable have to be to transmit several gigawatts without melting? A meter thick? More? A cable that thick would be too heavy to be supported up to stratospheric height by balloon.


No, you do not need copper you can use steel cable.  There are many 500kv lines here in the USA that can easily support up to 2 gigawatts, either AC or DC across a thousand miles.  There is a 500kv line, part of the Columbia grid, that is forty miles away from my house on other side of the Snake River that connects the dams on the Snake to the west coast.  One of the two main lines that delivers power from the Pacific Northwest to southern California is a DC line, part of the intertie, that delivers close the two gigawatts.  I think they pushed that capacity during the rolling California blackouts of 2003. :shock:

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Offline Satanic Mechanic

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Re: Secret Star Wars program
« Reply #18 on: May 13, 2009, 05:57:49 PM »
Ijuin,
Sorry, I was getting off topic on power delivery (I work in the power field).  The cable would not need to be a meter thick, but 30 miles (50km) of transmission lines... you need one hell of a balloon or Zeppelin to support that much mass.  I would not trust transmission lines going vertical in the wind.... one line collides into the other while delivering 2 gigawatts is not a pretty sight.
Breakers would trip, a huge swing in power would cause an "islanding effect" like in the northeast U.S. power blackout a few years ago. Molten transmission lines plummeting to Earth....  Sounds like a crappy movie they would play on the SciFi channel.

SM

Offline jdbenner

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Re: Secret Star Wars program
« Reply #19 on: May 13, 2009, 07:07:43 PM »
Well a stratospheric balloon would not have to support the whole weight.  Lower sections could be supported by lower altitude balloons (the lower air is denser).  Inflatable or Tensile towers are another option.  There are many options, but we should practice K.I.S.S. whenever possible.
Joshua D. Benner Associate in Arts and Sciences in General Science

Offline supernode

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Re: Secret Star Wars program
« Reply #20 on: May 15, 2009, 10:46:04 AM »
To get back on topic: let's not forget the divulgence of inside intel on the recovery of a space vehicle originated from another planet than Earth.

The Day after Roswell by Colonel Philip Corso

Offline jdbenner

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Re: Secret Star Wars program
« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2009, 01:01:58 PM »
Yes we did get off topic didn’t we. :?  Well to answer your question, I do not Believe the Colonel. 8) 
Joshua D. Benner Associate in Arts and Sciences in General Science

Offline supernode

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Re: Secret Star Wars program
« Reply #22 on: May 16, 2009, 09:32:35 AM »
Do you believe anything else he declared during his life?

Offline Johno

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Re: Secret Star Wars program
« Reply #23 on: May 18, 2009, 08:34:56 AM »
I have no basis for comparison.  I do not have any information about the truthfulness or otherwise of the Colonel in question.

It is also worth noting that the Colonel has a solid motive to lie.  Presumably the book is worth money to him.  Even assuming his "documents" are NOT a mere fabrication, it is possible for a person to obtain Freedom of Information documents and construct whatever argument you like.  You can say you have all kinds of artifacts, and if it's a book, how can anyone dispute you?

So in short, I see no compelling reason to believe him.

Offline supernode

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Re: Secret Star Wars program
« Reply #24 on: May 19, 2009, 07:14:08 AM »
In other words, a colonel responsible for the Foreign Technology Research Desk of the Pentagon declares his department recovered and studied technology unknown to them. Out of hand, you wouldn't believe him.

Offline ijuin

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Re: Secret Star Wars program
« Reply #25 on: May 20, 2009, 12:02:51 AM »
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I'd like to see more than just his say-so on the matter. Perhaps some independent verification?

Offline Johno

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Re: Secret Star Wars program
« Reply #26 on: May 20, 2009, 06:42:46 AM »
Considering the Pentagon screwed up just about all the intel in Iraq, I'd say they have pretty much zero credibility on even pretty regular matters.  But I digress . . .

If he IS a Colonel responsible for the Foreign Technology Research Desk of the Pentagon - unless you have their records (and I'm pretty sure they're quite tight-lipped on the matter), you have only his say-so.

You can't prove it either way.

AND he is highly motivated to lie.  You have not addressed this fact - Apart from some rank and title (which could very well be ficticious, do you have any reason to believe him?


Offline supernode

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Re: Secret Star Wars program
« Reply #27 on: May 21, 2009, 12:14:23 PM »
Let me put it this way: why would he lie ? Personal gain, you say. You think an officer like him would make up a whole book for a couple of thousand bucks?

Offline DonPMitchell

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Re: Secret Star Wars program
« Reply #28 on: May 21, 2009, 01:01:56 PM »
Two points:

First, laser-driven schemes for intersteller travel are bogus.  The law of diffraction means that you have build a laser with a huge aperture in order to focus power on a spacecraft at great distances.  The diameter of a laser beam is given by:

beam diameter = wavelength * distance / laser aperture

Let's assume typical wavelength of light (500 nanometers) and a beam distance equal to the radius of the solar system (about 6E+12 meters).  Then we get

beam diameter = 3000000/aperture

So to focus on a 1 meter diameter spacecraft would require a laser with a 3000 kilometer wide objective, about the size of the Moon.  Or you can make the spacecraft 1 km wide and the laser 3 km wide. The laser would have to be optically precise (that is, free of aberation to a tolerance of about 500 nanometers).  Not remotely possible, technically or financially, any time in the foreseeable future.

This scheme gets brought up over and over, and sadly NASA was even tricked into paying some so-called scientists to work on this before Institute for Advanced Concepts was finally shut down.


Second point:  Why are we talking about UFO antigravity bull**** on this forum?
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Offline LunarOrbit

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Re: Secret Star Wars program
« Reply #29 on: May 21, 2009, 01:20:58 PM »
Second point:  Why are we talking about UFO antigravity bull**** on this forum?

Good question. I've moved the thread to the "Fact or Fiction?" section where it belongs (or should I say the closest it comes to belonging in this forum at all).

supernode, you'll find that we aren't all that interested in conspiracy theories or rumours here, just verifiable facts. As Don has shown, the science just doesn't support your case.
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