Computer Software and Hardcore Reference

[Harry]

Hey guys,

     Well, a few questions and curious thinking prompted me to go ahead and bring fair attention to what I'd like to see around here and if it could be more defined at a titled forum, to better zero in on the main factors involved.

     Wanted to know more about some particular computer program and software aids that may be available through general retail and would like to discuss possibly, issues of updates; operating systems as the new Vista; Mac as compared to general PCs; and if anyone in the website has access to commercial or industrial main frames or sub-stations (laboratory levels of hardware); filtering and protection software; etc.

     To present my inquiry here rather than a 'child board' (seeing that it may be buried) or even adding to an already topic in place, but not quite related to the material in question... would bring about some continued response.

     Had to look into the 'Mathmatics of Population' topic (because of so many replies and views), which turned out to be misleading, as I expected a round of dialogue concerning socioeconomics... but read overwhelmingly (3 pages) of theoretical architecture by an individual obsessed with a not-so original idea.

     It failed to even mention the counter elements we humans have created for such 'control', being: those of cigarretts; automobile deaths; aids; inter-city crime; and even high-stress lifestyles and booze. Not to mention the continued small-scale wars. (But, that was just my $00.02 worth.) Interesting problems, we think that need attention. That is, saying about the 'City-Block' (of which I had a concept as well, for some 30+ years ago).

     I hesitate as a I ramble, sorry. (Just still readin' up on all your history around here.)

     To get to the point, I was wondering if there was a graphics drawing/technical layout software program one could recommend that could be had from some retail outlet, one I could install in my PC's hard drive that wasn't too cost prohibited. Mostly something to do with architectural, auto and product in being short of the involved CAD offerings on the market today. Those I have puchased in the past are so big, technically involved and overstuffed with tools n' templates I'd never use.

     All this, with the understanding that a few of you are or use to be in the business and I would appreciate some title and brand selections, any of you may suggest. As for me, I use to be in the commercial art and free lance rendering world, many moons ago. 

     Thank you.     

     

           

[DonPMitchell]

I wish someone made a really decent image viewer.  I use ACDSee, which pretty much satisifies my work flow.  It shows me a thumbnail view of folders, lets me quickly view an image full screen, and its built-in editor is powerful and has high-quality resizing filters (Lanczos Sinc, not just cubic).  But it is quite buggy, and after about version 3.0, it is unusable.  Everyone uses the old version, because the guys who write ACDSee clearly have a poor software engineering plan.

I've tried all the others, Picaso, irfanview, faststone, thumbsplus...none of them do the right things for me.  Sigh...

[Jirnsum]

Don: I use Paint Shop Pro 7 for most of my stuff. It's an older version, but runs quite fast, and does almost anything I could wish for in a graphics program.

As for Harry's question: colleagues of mine involved in hardware test setup design use Autocad Lt a lot. As you say there may be a lot of features in there one never uses. But without some more specific wishes on your part it's kind of hard to recommend a piece of software to you If it's some kind of 3D "show-off" capability you want, I can recommend G-Max (which is free: http://www.turbosquid.com/gmax). It's the basis of many user-created-content-editors for games that are out there (I kow it through B.A.T., a Building Architect Tool for Simcity 4)

[Harry]

Thanks guys,

     Now, we're cookin.

     Yeah, the AutoCad software mentioned, I came close to getting, not sure the brand name(s) off hand. Some are expensive and overstuffed. There are two versions/levels of this serious programming and is what I think I need, above the usual 'clip art' software that's been around for several years. And yes, the 3D and wire building system examples are the kinds I've been curious about.

     I've sort of outgrown the Paint Shops (I've really enjoyed them too) and PhotoCads or prepared graphics, not giving me what I desire. I'm after original layouts on the screen with some basic engineering or drafting, like achitectural and vehicle designing. I'll look into the G-Max in the near future.

     Also, I've had Sim City 4 Deluxe Edition for about 4 years and understand what Jirnsum is talking about. Trouble is, the system slows down as the graphics build up! The map region creation and city planning is all I really get out of it. I get hooked some evenings, like some with cross-word puzzles!
     The Autocad Lt may have been the very one I had seen before, you had mentioned. Just that I hesitiate to spend a few hundred bucks on something I may not get its full potential from. As well, besides speed recovery, there is only so much room on the hard drives.

     Internet downloads are very scary for me, as in the past they have messed up operations more than once. It's difficult for me to trust any of them anymore. Or, they never load anyway. But I'll see what appears to be around, as I explore the alternatives all of you have suggested.

     Thanks for your help, so far.

     Wanted to know still, if any of you have experienced using commercial/industry grade or main frame hardware in your past. Is Sperry Rand still around? Or Burroughs Corporation? Yeah, those were the days. Do the Macs offer superior programs of mention? 

     Could Dell or Gateway offer up what I may be looking for, or has it all been geared for the gaming, music and quickie photo cultures (general consumer) of today? Or are they just labels as any other PC around?

     I've gone Sony these past few years.

     What have you guys been comfortable with?             

       

[DonPMitchell]

YOu can't really compare PC software with what existed on the old mainframes like Univac or IBM.  They did not contain any software geared toward entertainment or personal productivity, they were just used to run numerical or business accounting programs.

The Windows PC vs. Mac debate can become endless.  Most personal computers are Windows PCs, and that market is much bigger, with much more software available.  The Mac has a very nice design, and many artists prefer it.

[Harry]

Hmmm,

     Thanks Don, I think. Too short and cut n' dry.

     Yeah, I am aware of the history and even had a few reel-to-reel tapes in the past which held that kind of programming. Neat stuff when put on audio playbacks. Lots of rythm in the binary.

     Was just hoping to hear from those who have had their hands on some serious gear. But, I guess not, so far.

     Member Jirnsum, had directed me to a website for those wanting to create gaming model characterisms of their own. The packages are mostly compatible (as I read it) with established program interfacing. Not what I was really after.
     But then that website represented another sponsored link by an organization making the Anark Studio 4.0 software. Whew-ee! Cost: $3000.00. And this outfit that provides such software, has a whole campaign geared for industy and academic levels of product presentation, design and sales. A bit overblown for my particular needs.

     Maybe something in between this super-fine Anark and one of the Paint program toolings would be preferable. But, too bad something so attractive in graphic representation reproduction has to cost as much as a used car. I suppose the effort which went into creating it is justified. Maybe. Not.

    I'll have to settle for the very AutoCads I've been itching to get and dropping a few hundred clams, even if I don't get the full application from all the tools and less useful technical extentions for what I want to achieve.

    Wanted to add as well, as a good reference material in book form: Discover Science Almanac. Such a great, compact and fact-packed information source for just about anything having to do with science. Makes one even 'feel smarter', by reading from all it has to offer. Get one if you don't already have it. 5x8 Paperback. 766 pages. Hyperion/Stonesong Press. 2003. About 14 well spent bucks.

               

     

     

       

[DonPMitchell]

I'm not sure what you are asking.  You mentioned early mainframe computers, and I programmed those in the early 1970s.  I programmed a CDC 6600, a UNIVAC 1100 at the University of Minnesota and an IBM 370 class system at Caltech.  The CDC and IBM systems were programmed via cardboard punch cards.  These would be fed into the machine, the program would run, and the output was printed on a high speed drum printers.  Typically you would drop off your program, and come back a few yours later to get the results of your calculation.  So there was nothing like the interactive experience that you have on a PC, there was no such thing as a game one would play with the machine.

Time sharing was developing around then, simultaneously developed at MIT, Michigan and Darmouth.  Dartmouth did the most important work, inventing the BASIC system, which included the programming language called BASIC.  The CDC system also ran BASIC, and so did the UNIVAC system.  These were accessed on a teletype machine, which printed on a paper roll at 10 to 30 characters per second.  You did have an interactive experience with the machine then.  There were very simple games that used the paper printout.  Probably the most interesting of these was "Adventure", a text-based game where you explored a cave for treasure and fought monsters.

I have a small section on my home page about the machines I've used: http://www.mentallandscape.com/Computer.htm

The most sophisticated system I was exposed to, in the late 1970s was PLATO, a vast timesharing system built by Control Data (CDC) and the University of Illinois.  It had a flat screen plasma display that could draw images, and it had games like multi-user networked dog-fighting in airplanes and such.  It was way ahead of its time, but the terminals were tens of thousands of dollars, so this was just something you would find at colleges or big companies.

Personal computers like the Altair came out after Intel invented the microprocessor.  I had a friend who owned an Altair, but I was so limited in what it could do that I never was tempted to buy one.

Well actually I guess I don't know what this thread is about...games, autocad, sim city?  Things like that didn't really exist until after the advent of the Apple and Windows/PC systems.  In the late 1980s, there were UNIX workstations, which had graphical displays.  These were more powerful computers, but there was never really a software economy around them, you saw nothing as sophisticated as the user interfaces and software of the Mac or PC.

[Harry]

Hey there Don,

     Once again, thanks for the history lesson.

     Fine business you have had such a history of your own with the hardware you mentioned. I too, were exposed to much of this as I grew up with my father being an early (WW II) radar mechanic in the (Army) Air Force and my brother having been involved with amatuer radio.

     My dad would bring home those punchcards (index stock) of which I still have as keepsakes from back in the late 50's. Both my brother and I messed around with the ol' superhetrodynes (sp?) and experienced the peanut tube era. He went on to be a 'ham' operator and I played with sound reproduction (audio buff). We kept abreast of electronics, even having a handy workbench in our bedrooms, readiing all we could find through the Popular Science and Mechanics magazines. His favorite (lifer) and still, The Amatuer Radio Relay League and mine were the Guitar Player and home electronics mags later in life. Both of us shopped from Allied Radio/Radio Shack. (Remember Lafayette and Olson?)
     Dave, my brother, was first to get ahold of any real PC offereings, from Apple's Commadores, Tandy, to IBMs for the home. I received a Sinclair/Timex (ran from a cassette program) from him through GM training, to first be introduced in BASIC. Man, was that a drag! Especially for graphic setup encodings. I didn't attempt much more in that area until I had my own system about 10 years ago and programs were Windows oriented. Other events in my life took priority over any previous evolution of the CAD experience. 

     Which is what I've been after. Computer Aided Designing, not gaming software, on a 'level and utility' that I can be comfortable with and apply to what project results I would be after. And, I suppose there are the tools' software packages on the market which were mentioned previously in the postings but I've yet to review them, all in due time.

     Second point has been, whether or not any of the members around here have (recently, like in the last few years or so) have had any experience with (how do I describe these things?) industrial/academic/technical grade, professional designing, corporational systems of TODAY. Just wanted to know what they had to put up with in order to achieve the goals they set out to do on such machines. Vehicle design, architectural and interior home, consumer products and mechanical engineering, etc. 
     (Not, iconic game items.) 

     Yep, its been a long way since the ol' Altair. But wasn't that a kick when it first came out in a kit form and everyone (who knew how to solder a connection) could play the 'mad scientists'? Oh, remember Heathkits too? 

     Blink, blink... buzz, click. 

     Didn't you just hate dot-matrix though? Bor-ing. Good ol' Epson scroll. Crunch, crunch.

     Geeze, I just thought of something... maybe there's an outlet where one could get their hands on some used professional grade sytems that are still operating, but dirt cheap? Know of anything like this? Yeah, I've been to trade shows as well, but mostly spent-out retailed junk. Great for picking up software though at a bargain. Maybe I just didn't recognize the hardware and passed it up.

     Anyway, good to exchange the information and history. Once again. 


   

[A big p.s.: I'd like to discuss the other item(s) mentioned too for reference and learning. Any comment on the book suggestion? How about, 'Yesterday's Tomorrows'? Or 'Space Places'? It all doesn't have to be PCs and programs, ya know.]

                    

     

[Harry]

Hey Glactus,

     Just to let you know, as there was little warning and I had forgotten... that the more serious program 'freebies' I looked up at the one site you suggested, was so extensive. Would take hours to download as it appeared, even though I had a ZIP drive ready to take on the volume of data. I'm still on dial-up and the standard modem set at 52.

     This is what I meant about leaving my system vulnerable, if not wearing on my patience. Easier to go out and shop for the package than having to depend upon the free downloads of anything. Especially in my position. I found a liking to the Rhino CAD/3D software offerings, by the way

     Thanks anyway, and as an interesting note, there was far more than I had realized available (but still pricey!) when it comes to what I've been looking for. The software has become more sophisticated and refined than I had imagined. But damn, I am frustrated that I can't use the tools provided which could reflect my designs and what they are to represent. Then again, maybe my system couldn't perform the tasks anyway? Dunno.

      I can see that it could all get into a very expensive hobby, while being short of a commercial offering to support it. Not a wise thing when there are other items in one's life to be so material oriented. I also want a large, plasma TV someday as well. And, a new car. Get my point?

      But here's the question now. Would going coax be more to my benefit when it comes to downloads over the Internet? It may solve some of the problem. Just that I hadn't the need for such a change. I've only been on the Internet since the turn of the century.
     
      Oh, well.