Author Topic: Liftoff! Remake  (Read 48995 times)

Offline ijuin

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Re: Liftoff! Remake
« Reply #15 on: June 21, 2007, 10:24:26 PM »
Perhaps there should be a "rendevous" step in between Orbital Insertion and crew transfer? IIRC before Gemini 6/7 it was uncertain whether two spacecraft could really get that close to one another in only a few hours from launch.

Offline Count Zero

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Re: Liftoff! Remake
« Reply #16 on: June 22, 2007, 03:29:21 AM »
Perhaps there should be a "rendevous" step in between Orbital Insertion and crew transfer?  IIRC before Gemini 6/7 it was uncertain whether two spacecraft could really get that close to one another in only a few hours from launch.

Yes, that was the concern, however the reality for both sides was that orbital rendezvous was not so difficult to achieve.  Although some missions did (for one reason or another) burn more fuel than planned (Gemini 10 comes to mind), to my knowledge no manned orbital rendezvous has ever failed. 

The physical act of docking (when one spaceship loves another spaceship very much...  :shock:  :lol:) is another matter.  There have been near-failures saved by the crew after multiple tries (Apollo 14), failures to dock (Soyuz 2/3 (pilot error) and Soyuz 15 (electronics failure)) and life-threatening collisions (Progress M-34/Mir).

The Liftoff! rulebook states,

Quote
Docking failures do not have charts associated with them.  Instead, the effects of a failure in a docking is treated specially.  Normally a failed docking will carry no adverse effects other than a budget reduction.  However, when a docking fails on a lunar landing mission, the results can be quite serious.  If a docking fails on the way to the moon (before the actual landing attempt), then the mission is scrubbed.  Carry the rest of the mission out as if it was a lunar orbital, but treat it as a failure.  If the docking fails after the landing attempt (while the astronaut is in the LEM) then the astronaut(s) in the LEM is (are) stranded.  Each stranded astronaut must either succeed in an emergency EVA . . . or the mission is a catastrophic failure.


If I were writing a computer simulation, I would put in separate rolls for 'rendezvous' and 'docking', but in a tabletop game this is a needless complication.

I do believe there should be a docking failure chart.  In fact, I may put one in my latest revision:

S - ORBITAL ACTIVITIES (DOCKING)
(Capsules and minishuttles)

01-80  Docking mechanism fails to latch.  Roll 1d10.
          1-3  Repeated tries succeed in getting 'capture'.  Continue with mission.
          4-0  All attempts fail.  If the docking target is a manned LM, each member
                 of the crew must make an emergency EVA (EVA Safety/2) to return
                 to the capsule.  If all crew are safe, the mission is still a success.
81-00  Collision!  Roll 1d10.
          1-4  Target spacecraft is damaged.  If the docking target is a manned LM,
                 each member of the crew must make an emergency EVA (EVA Safety/2)
                 to return to the capsule.  If all crew are safe, the mission is still a success.
          5-8  Both spacecraft are damaged.  If the docking target is a manned LM,
                 each member of the crew must make an emergency EVA (EVA Safety/2)
                 to return to the capsule.  Capsule suffers  25% penalty on RECOVERY
                 safety check.  If all crew are safe, the mission is still a success.
          9-0  Both spacecraft destroyed in high-speed collision.  Catastrophic failure.

One more thing:  Liftoff! allows docking safety to max-out at 100%.  I would make that 98%, so that the chance of failure is always there.
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Offline ijuin

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Re: Liftoff! Remake
« Reply #17 on: June 22, 2007, 06:04:47 PM »
Does EVA safety/2 mean that there is a 50% chance of failed EVA?

Offline Count Zero

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Re: Liftoff! Remake
« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2007, 02:02:49 AM »
Does EVA safety/2 mean that there is a 50% chance of failed EVA?

No, it's the player's current EVA safety rating divided by two.
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Offline ijuin

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Re: Liftoff! Remake
« Reply #19 on: June 23, 2007, 03:39:32 AM »
So then it means there's a MORE than fifty percent chance of failure?

Offline Count Zero

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Re: Liftoff! Remake
« Reply #20 on: June 23, 2007, 12:55:02 PM »
No - There is a more than 50% chance that something will go wrong during the EVA.  That is NOT the same thing as EVA "failure".  Most of the malfunctions on Chart H offer a good possibility that repairs will be made, or that the astronauts will overcome the difficulty.

[edited to add]

By way of example, let's look at a few historical EVAs in game terms:

Voshkhod 2 - Alexi Leonov failed his EVA safety check.  Rolling percentiles on Chart H, he gets 77-86:  "Astronaut is jammed in doorway, roll 1d10."  He rolls and gets 1-8:  "Clearance is made and EVA is good."  In fact, Leonov had to lower his suit pressure dangerously so that he could bend enough to get back in the spacecraft.

Gemini 4 - Ed White made his EVA safety check.

Gemini 9 - Gene Cernan failed his EVA safety check.  Rolling percentiles on Chart H, he gets 38-63:  "Over-exertion, roll percentiles."  He rolls and gets 01-45:  "Condensation on visor forces astronaut to shorten EVA.  EVA is still successful."

Gemini 10 - Mike Collins made his EVA safety check (despite some maneuvering problems).

Gemini 11 - Dick Gordon failed his EVA safety check.  Rolling percentiles on Chart H, he gets 38-63:  "Over-exertion, roll percentiles."  He rolls and gets 46-85:  "Astronaut is quickly exhausted, but completes EVA."
« Last Edit: June 23, 2007, 01:30:28 PM by Count Zero »
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Offline surlalune

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Re: Liftoff! Remake
« Reply #21 on: June 23, 2007, 03:30:06 PM »
What about the manual?
I really don't know what to say...

Offline Count Zero

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Re: Liftoff! Remake
« Reply #22 on: June 24, 2007, 09:14:17 PM »
I played a game with two friends this weekend using the Docking failure chart.  It was controversial.  It slowed things down somewhat (it was late at night and we were tired), but it does actually allow a slightly higher chance of success.

The line that reads "81-00  Collision!  Roll 1d10." should read:

"81-00  Collision!  Docking is a failure.  Roll 1d10."

This should clarify the difference between docking failure and mission failure, which are not necessarily the same.
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Offline surlalune

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Re: Liftoff! Remake
« Reply #23 on: June 28, 2007, 12:55:50 PM »
That makes a bit of a point...
I really don't know what to say...

Offline cartmancakes

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Re: Liftoff! Remake
« Reply #24 on: June 28, 2007, 03:41:04 PM »
What about the manual?

I just keep forgetting. 

Maybe I should go to Kinko's, make a copy, and snail mail it to you...

btw, I got an email from Fritz about add-ons to the boardgame...  Expansion packs.  Possibly out next year.  Good stuff coming...  Very good stuff coming...
Check out my webpage at www.spacebull.com!

Offline Peyre

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Re: Liftoff! Remake
« Reply #25 on: June 29, 2007, 02:41:18 PM »
What about the manual?

I just keep forgetting. 

Maybe I should go to Kinko's, make a copy, and snail mail it to you...

btw, I got an email from Fritz about add-ons to the boardgame...  Expansion packs.  Possibly out next year.  Good stuff coming...  Very good stuff coming...

Or, you could always scan it and make a PDF that you could email to people...

Offline cartmancakes

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Re: Liftoff! Remake
« Reply #26 on: July 02, 2007, 01:15:14 PM »
That was/is the original plan... 

How many people are wanting this?
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Offline Peyre

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Re: Liftoff! Remake
« Reply #27 on: July 02, 2007, 02:08:11 PM »
That was/is the original plan... 

How many people are wanting this?
I wouldn't mind a copy, if it's easy for you to do.  Don't knock yourself out, but it would be a nice extra.

Offline surlalune

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Re: Liftoff! Remake
« Reply #28 on: July 17, 2007, 01:52:54 PM »
Yeh, I want one too....I wish I had an original copy....
I really don't know what to say...

Offline surlalune

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Re: Liftoff! Remake
« Reply #29 on: August 09, 2007, 07:05:29 AM »
I got an email from Fritz about add-ons to the boardgame...  Expansion packs.  Possibly out next year.  Good stuff coming...  Very good stuff coming...

Will he then rerelease the game?
I really don't know what to say...