Moon hoax drivel on Loose Change forum

[Johno]

Trouble is, the guy is obviously using a CGA monitor in an XGA world . .

[LunarOrbit]

These guys are incredibly weak minded.  It's not just that they don't understand all the technical issues.  It's that they fall for wildly impossible conspiracy theories.

Hey, Don, I just thought I'd let you know that someone named "grommit" on the Loose Change forum is using your website as proof that the Soviets were in on the hoax. It's incredible the way hoax believers try to twist information to suit their needs.

What is often said, is that the missions have been verified by other nations. They (eg the Russians) tracked a craft going to the moon, splitting in two in LO etc.

This is the same bunch of clowns that crashed a probe into the lunar surface full of little medals claiming it for the Soviet Union. They're not credible, both nations had space programs getting about the immediate solar system like wild dogs pissing on objects to satisfy their cold war masters. Like any historical event there is truth to it as well as lies, to just accept one side of an account without question is borderline zealotry. I believe that there is a blend of fact and fiction in the Apollo record, Why? I don't know. Why can't NASA's Andy Thomas see stars in space when other Astronauts can? It's these types of contradictions and strange statements as well as some lousy debunking that keep me interested.

And this is some sort of reason for them to collaborate in the Apollo hoax which makes the US look better than they are?

Actually, I don't recall that they ever claimed the moon for the Soviet Union, do you have a source?

Well they didn't say for all mankind like the Americans and then unfurl a star spangled banner, at least you can admire the blatancy of the commies.

http://www.mentallandscape.com/V_Pennants.htm

I suppose a bear pisses a bit louder than a pit bull though.

[Obviousman]

You really have to moniotor that board every now and again.  If not for the Apollo Hoax (!) drivel posted by David C, then for the plethora of critical thinking that is the Loose Change board.

I mean:

I should have been clearer. I was referring to the issue of the moon rocks allegedly brought back by the astronauts. If the mainstream science journals say they're real, it doesn't mean it's true. That's the point I was making. The fact that all of the prestigious journals and science textbooks, etc say the rocks are real and cannot be faked is not proof given the record of lies the government has.

You have to laugh, really - until you realise that people like this can actually vote in our various countries....

[DonPMitchell]

What twits.  Look at the link to my pennant page now. 

"People who believe the Moon landings were fake, believe professional wrestling isn't."

  -- Mallard Fillmore

[DonPMitchell]

What do you get when you take a loser and give him a borderline personality disorder?  True believers of crank theories are narcissists, and publically lauded accomplishment make them feel jealous and anxious.  Faith in a crank theory allows them to feel superior to more successful and famous people.

Thus the smug Velikovsky fan believes he knows more about planetary science than Carl Sagen.  A SHAC activist can break a scientist's windows, throw chemicals in his face or scare his children, and feel morally superior to someone who is working to cure disease.  A creationist believes he is wiser than Darwin and generations of biologists.  A nut working on a gyro-magnetic warp drive is convinced that he is a genius who has gone beyond Einstein.  A guy who flunked highschool science can dismiss the entire space program by simply stating that it was all a fake.  "I'm not a rocket scientist, but neither are they!"  The leftist professor can make up for his lack of practical accomplishment and social status by denouncing successful people as "little Eichmans".

[DonPMitchell]

Incidently, be sure to watch Penn & Teller's shows.  Here is the one on on Conspiracy Theories:

Penn & Teller

[LunarOrbit]

Sorry, Don, the forums word censor screwed up your link, but I fixed it.

[Johno]

Some of their stuff is good.  Trouble is, they're too willing to resort to similar tactics themselves.  And no matter how good their reasons for their use of profanity may be, I still hold that it diminishes them to use it.

[sparkmaster]

I love that show. I especially like their episode on gun control.

[Johno]

I dunno.  I guess it might make a little more impact if I didn't live in a country where gun control has already been largely successful (or perhaps it's just that we never let guns get OUT of control in the first place!!!!! .  But to me it seemed to be pretty much more of the same as the rest of their shows - lampoon the opposition then present your own side as though it was the only reasonable alternative.  Disingenuous at best, downright dishonest at worst.  I respect Penn and Teller's talents at illusion, but every time I watch them I lose more respect for them as people.  They claim to be getting people to think, but they're just as blinkered and dishonest as those they deplore.

This doesn't mean that they're not sometimes correct, though - vis a vis their psychics episode.

[DonPMitchell]

There is a time to try to calmly reason with offensive wingnuts, who are trying to corrupt people's minds and gain political opportunity by dishonest means.  And there is a time to just call them what they are, a bunch of a******s.  P&T is like Buzz Aldrin punching Sibrel in the face.

Their show on Global Warming was the only one I questioned.  Not because I believe one way or another, but because it still seems undecided.  I do agree that conspiracy theory wingnuts have gravitated to the Global-Warming issue.  They might be right or wrong, but their reasoning and scientific knowledge is still defective.

In general, I believe most rational intelligent people tend to believe true things.  Everyone has a few passionate beliefs that are incorrect, of course.  But I'd say about 25 percent of people are able to change their minds if they are shown hard evidence.  It's not easy, I really do thing most human beings tend to think in terms of magical associations, not scientifically or logically.

Penn is such a rational person.  He's a social liberal, an atheist, knows a lot of science and scientists, and is economically conservative.  I think 90 percent of his opinions are correct -- because they are the same as my own. 

[Johno]

Don, you've just fallen into the same trap.  And here I was thinking you're a higher life form that the rest of us! 

(Grin, duck and run)