Author Topic: Roving Mars  (Read 46972 times)

Offline snake river rufus

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Re: Roving Mars
« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2006, 05:39:46 PM »
I agree with the idea of service after graduation or turning 18. Everyone should do two years. a pacifist could do it in the merchant marine or peace corp, but I think everyone needs to serve.
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Offline Satanic Mechanic

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Re: Roving Mars
« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2006, 06:51:16 PM »
a pacifist could do it in the merchant marine or peace corp, but I think everyone needs to serve.
A pacifist can still join the army.  I am reminded of Heinlein's quote, 1 out of 10 U.S. soldiers actually do the fighting, the rest are support roles.
But your peace corps idea reminded me of a corps that the government did during the depression... I think it was called the Civilian Conservation Corps (CCC).  They did a lot of projects around the country like improving lands, building parks and puting up transmission lines.

SM

Offline DonPMitchell

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Re: Roving Mars
« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2006, 07:50:09 PM »
Agreed.  Especially today, when a lot of young men are graduating out of the weird pseudo-hip-hop culture of modern highschool.  There's a lot of talk these days about the growing academic failure of boys in high school.  Conservatives make claims like this is feminist educators making war on boys, which I think is a bit absurd.  I actually do blame the marketing of hip hop culture, with its violence, sexism, nihilism and horrible attitude toward education ("books are gay" as I heard one teen say).  Jeez, send that kid to the Marines!

I liked the Starship Troopers movie.  Verhoven's commentary is fun too, he's quite a character.  Given that he objects to Heinlein as fascist, he actually does something interesting with the book.  It's not a Michael-Moore leftist put-down of Heinlein, it's pretty straight up but obviously more disturbing than Heinlein would have meant it to be -- the jack-booted telepath, the televised executions, the web-page hypertext style propoganda.  I think it's a very creative Sci-Fi film, but yeah a lot of my friends hate it.
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Offline snake river rufus

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Re: Roving Mars
« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2006, 08:13:18 PM »
Well we do have the Jobs corp but,,,it is pretty much a disaster.
further I believe that two years in uniform, under watchful eyes, would go a long way towards eliminating todays drug problem.
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Offline Johno

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Re: Roving Mars
« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2006, 11:37:37 PM »
In Australia we are a little cautious about the concept of National Service.  In the 1960s and 70s, we had a National Service Lottery - Certain birthdays would be drawn, and if you were born on that day, congratulations!  You've won an all-expenses-paid ticket to the Vietnam War!

Needless to say, a lot of "Nashos" never came back (although statistically, given car crashes and drug overdoses, it was still safer to be in Vietnam than in Sydney . . .).  This has drastically coloured public opinion to conscription, even if it doesn't truly represent a broad based compulsory National Service program.

Nonetheless, the problem of aimless young people needing some pride and discipline has been noticed, and a proposal was recently made for compulsory volunteer work (say, with world vision or the Salvation Army) to become a part of the final year High school curriculum. Leaving aside the irony of "compulsory volunteering", the volunteer organisations are less than thrilled with the idea of young people that have to be there, and are requesting for it to be made voluntary, which kind of obviates the point of the scheme. . .

Offline snake river rufus

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Re: Roving Mars
« Reply #20 on: January 24, 2006, 12:06:33 AM »
We had a draft at the same that worked along similar lines. I do not want to return to that. I would like to see, however, mandatory service for everyone. No deferments, no lottery. Turn 18 and off you go. Might turn out to be a real mess but I think that it is time to try something else.
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Offline Simkid

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Re: Roving Mars
« Reply #21 on: January 24, 2006, 08:12:53 PM »
This might just be my complete lack of interest in being sent into a warzone next year talking, but I really hate the idea of a draft of any sort.  We do have 40 hours of mandatory volunteering needed to graduate from high school in Canada, but frankly this is crazy.  Beyond the irony of it, ultimatly, the people who would volunteer anyway do far more than needed, but with an extra layer of stress added, and the people who wouldn't have do the minimum at the last minute.

As to compulsory service specifically, the only type I would consider accepting would include the option to do civilian government work for 2 years.  Beyond that, a reserve requiring ALL citizens to be members might also work, but to require military service of youths is simply unfair.  I would in fact call it a form of age discrimination, and as such (at least in Canada) is probably a charter violation.  Why is it reasonable to say that to be a citizen you MUST take your chance in a war that you may or may not support, and that you have had no oppurtunity to try to prevent (being forced to fight is ultimalty ALWAYS the risk of compulsory service).

Offline jdbenner

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Re: Roving Mars
« Reply #22 on: January 24, 2006, 08:40:28 PM »
I for one do not support mandatory service.  Beside the moral problem of forcing people who do not support a war to die in  it, there is a problem with having team mates who don’t support the mission.  I for one would prefer being out numbered than to  have the numbers with desertion rampant.  And for the record I am an active duty United States Marine.  I don’t want a daft on my watch.
Joshua D. Benner Associate in Arts and Sciences in General Science

Offline snake river rufus

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Re: Roving Mars
« Reply #23 on: January 24, 2006, 09:10:00 PM »
Let me repeat that I'm not ruling out any other service than military service. I do think that the various branches of service should at least get the right of first refusal. There would have to be several other options for those who are unsuitable for military duty. Bring back the CCC or something along the lines of WPA.
Simkid, I know how you feel. I turned 18 in 1967.
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Offline sparkmaster

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Re: Roving Mars
« Reply #24 on: January 24, 2006, 10:11:59 PM »
It might be a nice idea, but it'll never happen.

Offline SCEtoAUX

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Re: Roving Mars
« Reply #25 on: January 24, 2006, 10:16:37 PM »
Unfortunately, if we were to bring back things like the CCC and other public infrastructure projects, the right-wingers would all be screaming "SOCIALISM!!!"  :( Why have a government program to do things like build parks and repair levees in New Orleans, when there are contractors who could make a buck on the process?

Spending for the public good is only acceptable when it is funneled through No-Bid contracts to the likes of Halliburton and Bechtel, I guess...

Of course, the labor unions would be screaming about the competition from the government workers, too. :x

Offline snake river rufus

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Re: Roving Mars
« Reply #26 on: January 24, 2006, 11:51:14 PM »
The company that I work for likes no-bid contracts (hence, so do I :lol:) but there are not really such things any longer except in times of extreme emergency.
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Offline sparkmaster

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Re: Roving Mars
« Reply #27 on: January 25, 2006, 06:55:38 PM »
When you need things done in a hurry, I guess no bid contracts could be very usefull.

Offline Satanic Mechanic

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Re: Roving Mars
« Reply #28 on: January 26, 2006, 11:23:26 AM »
Of course, the labor unions would be screaming about the competition from the government workers, too. :x


That was the original arguement against the CCC.  The greatest need I know of for service would be to fight forest fires.  That is the biggest problem where I live, not enough forest fire fighters.

SM

Offline snake river rufus

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Re: Roving Mars
« Reply #29 on: January 26, 2006, 08:13:17 PM »
I think that our national parks could stand to see a little sprucing up also.
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